How to combat the bedroom tax with a tape measure

Posted on February 25th, 2013 by Keith in Beyond the Shire

One – but only one – of the challenges to the bedroom tax is the minimum size of your smallest bedroom.

Many of the smallest rooms in social housing are less than 70 sq/ft and thus a boxroom rather than a bedroom.

A single bedroom has to be 70 sq/ft or 6.5 sq/m to be classed as a full (1.0) bedroom. If it is 9ft x 7ft then it is 63 sq/ft and just 0.9 of a bedroom.

The size standards are found in the 1985 Housing Act section 326 (and see here for an overview http://www3.westminster.gov.uk/docstores/publications_store/overcrowding%20excerpt.pdf ) which ironically deal with overcrowding and set out the 70 sq/ft issue and also the fact that anything under 50 sq/ft (eg 7ft by 7ft) cannot be deemed as a bedroom at all.

If you have a room which is under these requirements then it cannot be classed as a bedroom and you can legally challenge any under-occupancy judgement that says it is a bedroom.

Again, this is only one way to potentially combat the bedroom tax: the State has a shitty habit of closing down any loopholes that spring-up in its face, as evidenced in a recent workfare ruling.

We argue that it’s only tenant solidarity and direct action that will see the working class get the goods.

But, it is worth measuring up your smallest room to see if they are classed as a full bedroom or not.

If you want to read an accessible legal view of this try here – http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2013/02/room-without-review-thoughts-on-tackling-the-bedroom-tax/

combatbedroomtax@gmail.com

80 Comments on “How to combat the bedroom tax with a tape measure”

  1. bt chat group

    Utter rubbish bt is determined by what the house is rented out as don’t believe me ok well try it and see what happens i am sick of these getting peoples hopes up with completely wrong time

    • Mrs. Jones

      It was on Sunday TV today, Politics show, MP said that unless a bedroom measured 8 x 8 feet it was not big enough to be described as a “bedroom”. That is official!!! 2nd June, 2013.

      • ms d

        hi can you tell me what this was on please

      • Brenda

        I see your comment on the measurements of the spare bedroom being 8×8 , well I have been paying for a spare bedroom 6 & a half ft x 7 & a half , what can I do to point this out to my housing executive ?
        Thank you

        • Ric

          Sorry to hear pop down to CAB to make sure that the MP is right. remeasure the room if there are cupboards fitted or unfitted they do count that as part of the bedroom,but pls talk to CAB they will be able to help you and remember don’t be bullied take you time and if you are right with what you say ask CAB to help formulate a letter .

          hope all works out

          Rich

  2. Chris Vanns

    Well you just bend over and take another shafting off this government, but if you are not onside you are in the way so move aside.

  3. Shaun

    Birmingham City Council are refusing to follow the 1985 Housing Act. They refuse to reclassify the number of bedrooms regardless of room size.

  4. Ste

    If I put a bath in there could it still be called a bedroom?

    • paula

      lmao u got me thinkg now…

  5. Mr harsh reality

    The reason birmingham council refuse to acknowledge the 1985 housing act is because this Act was superceeded by the Housing Act 2004 that states aslong as a single bed fits in the room it can be classified as a bedroom regardless of size. If you wanna get away with not paying the bedroom tax then either buy your own home or give up your bedroom… I totally agree with it, end of the day there are people out there in desperate need of housing and when people are sitting on a 3 bedroom house when they have no need of all three rooms them they should be taxed or made to give it to someone that ACTUALLY needs the space. People nee to remember, the house your in belongs to the council/housing association not you….. You want the tight to do what you want in a house then buy it!!

    • @Rural_Anarchist

      Ahh the opinions of a heartless capitalist, pretending to care about homeless people while supporting a policy that will push people out of their homes.
      It’s all about taxpayers money to you Daily Fail/Torygraph mob.
      Utterly obsessed with screwing poor and vulnerable.

      • Mr harsh reality

        Not heartless, i’m all for prioritising and to me a women with 4 children in need of a 3 bedroom house is more important and in greater need of that house than a person with a 3 bed house and no kids at home….. They no longer need the space as their kids have all moved out so do the right thing and give it to someone that does instead of moaning that your being taxed for hoarding space you no longer need….

        • caroline

          I agree with you. In Jersey they have always moved people out when they have a spare room. I don’t know if it’s easier or harder there due to the island being smaller. But there is a problem here managing this idea for sure, & that’s the lack of smaller properties for people to actually move into? It’s not as easy as just swapping everyone around because the other thing I don’t agree with is the elderly being exempt from this ‘tax’ considering the elderly are probably in the majority that are taking up large houses, that makes the problem of rehousing people even bigger. If they are going to do this, everyone needs to be included. If the elderley aren’t included because they can’t earn extra money to pay the tax, neither should.single parents that have very young children or the disabled that can’t earn either…

        • Mr Realist

          Sorry to sound heartless but maybe you should have thought about the amount of space you had before you had 4 kids…..

      • Sarah

        What a cheek. I’v lived in my council house for 32yrs, had my daughters who have just recently left to go to university.
        I have paid my rent, never claimed of the state for anything. Now people like the government let all these people into the country who decide to have lots of children and they think they have the ight to tell us to pay more or get out. WHAT HAPPENED TO GREAT BRITAIN. THE COUNTRY AND GOVERNMENT STINK. They sit in their big homes, drive flash cars and have great lives, when hard working people who are made redundant because the fat cats got this country in the mess it’s in take it out on us. I will NEVER give my home up to anyone. They chose to have the kids so why should i be made to suffer for them. KEEP THEIR LEGS CROSSED UNTIL THEY HAVE A HOME LIKE I DID.
        SOD THEM.

        • paula

          GOOD FOR YOU… I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID

        • Mike

          Hi Sarah I couldn’t agree more with you I’m in exactly the same boat and was thinking if I was to take out the separating wall would I then just have one very large room as I could put a separating slider door in for when the children were home to respect privacy

        • Dave

          LOL. Never claimed anything from the state EXCEPT A COUNCIL HOUSE FOR 32 YEARS!

          You peasants really make me chuckle.

          • Luther Blissett

            if you’ve nothing constructive to add, Dave, other than trolling we will no longer approve your comments,

    • paula

      RUBBISH, councils are forcing people out of their HOMES not houses, just because its council dont mean they can bully people. we can deal with rent increase but to force us out of our homes and give it to the foreigners is WAY OUT OF ORDER.

      • Keith

        Paula, you got any proof that councils are kicking people out of their homes so they can house ‘the foreigners’? That’s some accusation there, and one fuelled by a large amount of misinformation I’d guess.

        • paula

          where do u think the foreigners r going to live. their not gonna go back home after their shift r they

          • Keith

            Yes, foreign people live on these islands, that’s not a revelation. Your accusation was councils are evicting tenants from their homes to house immigrants instead. Can you back this up with facts? Rumours like that create a lot of prejudice and division, which is not something we promote on this site.

          • paula

            i never said the council r evicting tenants, i said they r being forced to down grade so there home can be given to the foreigners that come over here with their families. i already have some of them where i live, and some years ago i had the kosovans living next door to me. the council renewed everything in the house… kitchen,bathroom etc and the dhss gave them every bit of furniture they could think of… they eventually went back home as there country was safe but there r still some here cos i see them every day, y have they not been sent back!!!.. we r getting the albanians next year.. which means no houses or jobs for us again.

        • al

          Erm, yes they are, my friends recieved a letter toda syaing the council want him out of the house because he has more rooms than are needed for the amount of people living there and he has a court date in December. So yes, they are forcing people out of their homes. What if he plans on having kids in the next year or two? Or needs the space for his work?

    • peter1234

      Mr harsh reality can you please tell me what section of the housing act 2004 states this please so i can pass it on to my friend

      • Mr harsh reality

        @ peter1234. Not without going back to the council offices and opening my filing cabinet and searching to find the exact document…… Which i shall not be doing anytime soon as housing issues are no longer my department, and i wouldn’t get paid overtime for doing things out of hours that go beyond my everyday duties. If your friend wishes to know then i suggest he/she takes a trip to their local council and demands to see the amendments made to the housing act in 2004 (which didn’t actually come into effect until 2006 so really should be renamed) and looks over the stipulations with a fine tooth comb.

        • caroline

          Not sure how accurate he is but Martin Lewis (money saving expert) said on This morning today that the size is irrelevant, if the house is on your tenancy as a 1, 2, 3, 4 bedroom, that’s what it is…

    • angie baby xxxx

      Yeah i also agree with it as there are a whole lot of elderly people getting all benefit paid sat in a 3 bedroom house when there are so many desperate homeless families out there with nowhere, but when there is someone like me with 4 kids 3 of which me and my ex husband have joint custody of them girl age 10, girl age 9, boy age 5 and a girl 5 months. My ex claims the benefits for them and shares the money out between us as when we were together i did not have a bank account so he had them paid into his and we’ve just left it like this (he is currently living with his disabled mother with the 3 kids in a 3 bedroom council property if that’s of relevance). As i lost my 3 bed house due to unforeseen circumstances and am currently in temporary accommodation which is small 2 bedroom house which is a struggle with the 4 kids and am currently on the housing list with a gold+ priority and 2 years waiting on the list (basically anything i bid for i will get). I bid on a 3 bed house last week but 3 days ago i had a very devastating phone call from the council basically i am entitled to no more than a 1 bedroom flat due to the fact that i do not collect the benefits for the 3 of 4 children and my baby is not classed as a person who is entitled to a bedroom until she is 5 years old. WHAT THE HELL AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!!!!! So as you see in some cases the bedroom tax is a load of bollocks that can completely fuck up a families whole life and stress you out so much and having your children completely distraught and uncontrollably inconsolable sobbing thinking they cannot live with there mother anymore you feel so helpless you want to commit suicide. How the HELL am i supposed to fit 2 adults and 4 children into 1 bedroom???? The way they work out how many rooms you are entitled to is outrageous and just beyond ridiculous, there words were–your 5 month old baby is not classed as a person until she is 5 years old and your other 3 are not using the bedrooms constantly, only 4 or 5 days out of 7 every week is not good enough? Some people who are split up with there ex’s there children stay over there fathers every weekend for 2 days…why don’t they pay bedroom tax or have a 1 bedroom? All because he claims the child tax credits and working tax credits. THIS GOVERNMENT FUCKING STINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Caz

        This really doesn’t have to be complex, you need to have the benefits paid to you if you have the children. Everyone can get a bank account now, even the bankrupt. If the children spend most their week with their father, then I agree with you only being entitled to a one bedroom.
        The parent with care takes the priority for suitable accomodation. I have 2 teens of different genders in a 2 bed house & I am grateful.

    • Paul

      The bedroom tax is bollocks, only really affects people on benefits, got no money so we will take even more off them. To make it far, why don’t they up the rent for people working

  6. mr b

    we currently live in a 4 bed house as children all grown up and left apart from one who is 17 we have asked to downsize way before the bed ta came in and again all last year and this we have been refused as we have rent arrears we have appealed agaainst decision as we saying the council are putting us more in debt by not allowing us to move to give a large family this house and we have written to local mp which we havent had a reply as yet and to anyone who may help but we havent got anywhere with it we are desperate to downsize as arrears would go with us no matter where we go cant see the point of not allowing us to move as we will definately owe more by staying here

    • paula

      although im not in arrears, i have been trying to down size too since before the bed tax started, but im not moving into something or somewhere thats full of druggies….

  7. Keith

    @ Paula, above.

    If you’re being forced to ‘downgrade’ you’re essentially being kicked out/evicted, which isn’t what’s happening, but I think I get what you’re saying.
    Not sure where you’re from but here in Hereford we’re doing initial investigations into the number of foreign nationals waiting for, and living in, social housing and what we’ve found so far is that they’re relatively few compared to the number of locals.
    Ideas that immigrants are ‘coming over here’ and stealing all our houses (and jobs) are vastly exaggerated, not often backed up by fact and worst of all they divide poor locals and vulnerable foreigners so we end up fighting with each other. It’s not on. Both groups have a hell of a lot in common when you compare them to the rich and powerful who take whatever they want (20 bed mansions for two people, just because they can). What they get away with is obscene! What immigrants get in comparison is a drop in the ocean.

  8. bobby47

    Hello Paula & Keith, This is where we are. We have near on five thousand East European citizens residing in Hereford and their presence has been captured by our recent census.
    We also have a ‘big stone’ that the Council are aware of but fear to lift up because of the various unpleasant issues it will cause. That stone is HMO’s, Homes of Multi Occupancy and these are dwellings that contain dozens of people who’s information the census cannot capture because of its illegality. This of course means that the captured census information is completely wrong. Im not saying any of this to stir up any argument but this is the truth and the numbers of migrants here in Hereford today is considerably higher than the figure we are aware of.
    HMO’s are flourishing because there is a shortage of affordable accommodation and many migrants choose to live in this way so as to hang onto their hard earned cash and send it home to support their families. With the problem of HMO’s comes the problem that impacts upon our hard won public services. For example, My home generates one bin bag whereas the HMO produces twenty, so consequently the bin man has to work harder. ( this applies to any public service that we are provided with.)
    Then there is the exploitation that the landlord can use to gather more revenue from his HMO tenants . This in turn, feeds into the local property market and the cost of housing goes up and up making it harder for people to find an affordable home.
    As for the consequences of a vast number of people moving to Hereford within a relatively short space of time, the Council have a lawful duty to provide their citizens with housing and whilst they do, they should not ignore HMO’s. That said, considering the huge impact migration has had upon Hereford, I fully understand their reluctance to visit the issue of HMO’s.
    The reason many indigenous people feel they are given unequal treatment by the Housing Association, isn’t because the HA’s have an agreed protocol to give priority to East European citizens, it’s simply down to the fact that our East European citizens can get to the top of the list above local people because they have no family or other support network to fall back on and consequently, because they can’t stay with Mom, Dad and other family, they tend to get housing easier than local people who can stay with Mom, Dad and other family members.
    We are where we are. The Council have a duty to house those at the top of the needing list and they have an EU obligation to house migrants who come here for a better life.
    The tragedy is, when a vast number of people move to a community like Hereford that has limited resources there are always likely to be consequences and this feeds into a feeling that its us and them. Our political elite, through cunning, guile and downright stupidity have given us all this knotty connundrum and we’ve gotta resolve it simply by getting to know oneanother, talking and promoting a better and stronger community cohesion. Why should we do it? The bloody politicians will not say a word or do a single thing to help any of us.
    My very warmest regards to you both.

    • paula

      thanks but it dont change my recent opinion about immigrants going in front of me on the housing list.

  9. bobby47

    Paula, Please don’t think Im in anyway trying to undermine your view about this issue. Im not. I do understand completely how things can sometimes be perceived but, we are in this political predicament and there’s no sorting it out whilst we and the rest of the EU are in economic crisis.
    We have retired Brits living in places like Spain and Cyprus and each year six billion pounds of their money and our wealth leaves our shores to be spent outside our economy. Similarly, a similar sum of United Kingdom wealth is sent out of our Country by our European visitors back to their homelands to help to support their families and consequently that wealth is also spent outside our economy. International Money Exchange organisations put this figure as high as eight billion pounds which goes some way to explaining why some East European countries are in growth rather than recession.
    We are haemorrhaging vast sums of money each and every day of the week in the name of European Union. Within Herefordshire alone, thousands of pounds are spent daily on interpreters by our public service agencies, and our Hospitals, Criminal Justice System and other public service agencies are all overwhelmed by our new social and economic reality which isn’t going to change anytime soon.
    But, the thing is, it ain’t the fault of our East European visitors who are hard working, industrious and driven to escape the grinding poverty of their homeland and the remnants of the powerful fist of communism. They are simply people who want and seek a better life.
    For my part, if I were in their shoes I’d be doing exactly the same thing. I’d be here with my family getting what I could and have a better life.
    Some say, ‘we are being asset stripped and these wonderful public services that we want for our grandchildren are going to disappear because of this economic reality’. That may be so. In fact, our current economic model is not sustainable and its highly likely that many things that were once free to us and ours by birthright, will, in future have to be paid for by our descendants.
    But,…this ain’t the fault of our EU visitors. It’s the fault of our politicians and the madness that has made Greece, Cyprus and Portugal compete against the mighty economy of Germany.
    To conclude my ramblings, don’t be angry with our foreign visitors Paula. It’s not their fault. It’s ours for allowing our politicians to gamble away the chance that our grandchildren could enjoy a happy and prosperous future.
    My very warmest regards to you.

  10. Paula41

    How wrong is this? British people are being bullied out of there homes, it’s the poor and vulnerable who it affects, whether you’ve got spare rooms it shouldn’t mean that because the Government has to make cuts they take off the most vulnerable. People have lived in these homes for years and years and are being forced to leave or lose there benefit, sounds like bullying to me, and yes foreigners are being better treated than are own people which is wrong on so many levels as this is going to make people and are youngsters turn against the immigrants because they see them getting help with everything while they get nothing. It’s this government that is making divides in the community and you can only push people so far before they start fighting back.

  11. bobby47

    Paula, that’s the spirit girl. Blame these politicians rather than people who simply want a better life. They are ones who’ve given us globalisation and a broken capitalist economic model that causes people to move away from a disaster zone for purely economic reasons. It’s the politicians who then cause the poor to pick up the bill and pay the price in misery and its always been this way.
    And here we are today, not to different to medieval times when, on the whim of the local Lord , you could get kicked out of your home and be required to pay more tax to fund a crusade or another war.
    We never learn from history. We repeat the same mistakes our ancestors made. Very soon, the good people of Greece will be on the move, thousands upon thousands of Ex Pats will return to the UK simply to avoid an economic disaster and I promise you one thing, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. Add this gloomy forecast to Bulgaria and Rumania and their forthcoming migration and you’ve got one of the biggest foolhardy mistakes mankind has made since WW2.

    • Paula41

      Too true Bobby, I. Don’t blame anyone but the politicians, as it’s them who are bringing this country to its knees and the people with it. We are now going back in times, rather than moving forward. There is going to be uproar soon, as people aren’t going to stand for it, and hopefully they won’t be blaming anyone but the politicians. Things are going to get a lot worse and it will be the weak,poor and vulnerable who take the flak for the government getting it wrong on every level, as it’s always been..

  12. bobby47

    Paula, further to our discussion regarding Social Housing,……based upon last years collated national figures which include all parts the United Kingdom, one in ten homes were given over to persons born beyond the shores of the United Kingdom. In areas where population numbers have grown particularly rapidly, places like Lincoln, London and Kent, the number is one in six, which is forecasted to grow in ratio simply because the demand is huge and the demand is growing.
    Whether indigenous people are requiring housing or foreign nationals, the qualification to get to the top of the list will remain as it has been during the past decade. If the applicant has no support network, he or she gets to the top of the list quicker. During the past twelve months a number of directives have been cascaded down from Whitehall to Local Government urging that local people are not treated unfairly and given a good chance of getting social housing.
    That said, the reality will be rather like that tired and worn out slogan by our Gordon Brown, ‘British Jobs for British Workers. Fine words that appeal to the indigenous locals but very different to the reality. The law does not allow ‘the local people’ to have a better chance than our other citizens and political directives are meaningless and presented to win favour, earn your vote and make you smile.
    In short my good friend, we are buggared and we are at the mercy of the political mandarins across the Channel.
    My warmest regards.

    • Paula41

      I fall into the category of having spare rooms and one of the rooms is under 70 square foot so is classed as a boxroom but my social landlord is using the excuse that I signed my tenancy agreement as a 3 bedroom house so that’s it. At the moment I don’t know what way to turn, all I know is I’m going to be struggling to live and I can’t see any way out. I hope this government has a rethink on most of there policies, as it’s the likes of myself and thousands of people who are going to be up the creek without a paddle, very soon.

      Best wishes

  13. katie

    Here here Paula! I’m. Mum to be of 29 weeks. I have worked since I was 16 as a nurse. I finished a course in September 12′ and fell pregnant 3 week’s later in the midst of finding a new job. I am 28 and experienced a lot of problems in my pregnancy and also have underlying depression which I havent long come out of as I lost my brother. There are no turnover of 2 bedroom council houses, ive been told id have to wait 7-8 years by my local council. My option is to go private but finding these 2 bedroom houses are flying out, it’s a tough market at the moment and very stressful let alone the cost of fees to get settled as I have to go through an agency. Ive been told that Icannot claim my sure start maternity grant as IM on contribution based esa (sick) and not income. Contribution based means ive paid into the system my whole life via tax andN.I. Yet the most important time I now need the help I get penalised for being a hardworkin young girl. What a JOKE! Basically if I’d sat around and bummed the government and not worked my whole life id get the help I so badly need. I’m in a position where I need the support back but my government will not help me. Ontop of the stress of my pregnancy (IM off due to doctors strict orders by the way as ive had a v v bad pregnancy) paying out fees to get a 2 bedroom private home and the expense of preparing for my son I feel it almost impossible to see a way out. I may have to move into a 3 bedroom the way it’s going so there for I have to find fees to move and I have to pay the shortfall from what dss allow every month and a possible 14 percent a week. ‘ it’s impossible to see a way out. Next we will have an overspill of 3 bedroom houses and no turnover of 2 bedroomed houses!! I intend to go back to work as ive never been on a benefit and I want the best for my son and I and I am qualified in my field of work so why wouldnt I want to return to work. Yet NOBODY can deny me the fact of WANTING to stay at home for a year to be with my son and to be a hands on mum – after all I deserve it after working for 12 Years solid! No one can deny me that. To nurture my son and be a stable figure in his life while I can. I think IM owed that and id like the support wen it’s needed at matters but sadly I havent any! Along with other single and couples in my position. I’m not the only one. It’s not our Britain anymore and quite frankly theres too many foreigners here in Britain shafting us up the arse making our lives a mess letting us brits suffer in our country, agreed that it’s the government thats let us down bu penalizing us brits, to keep the foreigners in! So it seems! And that is the mentality of people in Britain! And it’s all thanks to our government!!!!

    • Paula41

      I’ve been through exactly the same Katie, I worked for the passport office and due to circumstances had to be signed off with Depression and anxiety, which I still suffer with today. I was on contribution based ESA and couldn’t get help with anything, I felt the same that I was being punished for working!! I. Can also tell you Katie that you will come off contribution based ESA after 12 months as that is the law.. I fully agree with you about all the foreigners in our country and are government are going to be letting more come in, they are the ones who are wrecking this country and making it so easy for the foreigners to abuse are welfare system and jump the queues, it is so so wrong and it has got to be us that stand up and make are voices heard. We are becoming the minority in our own country and that is wrong.. This government is a load of bollocks and they haven’t got a clue what it’s like to live in the real world!!!

      • Mr Green

        To be fair Paula you do talk some shite! Constantly going on about ‘the foreigners’ all the fucking time. Are you secretly a repressed foreigner or something? It’s alright, you can come out of the closet, we’re all friends here.
        Seriously, what is all this bollocks people talk about foreigners ‘jumping the queue’? I’ll tell you what it is, it’s someone who made something up, talked some shit online about it, it got read by gullible people that don’t check things out and has now become the phrase that every ignorant person in this country uses when they want to blame someone for something (bedroom tax, traffic, gone-off fucking milk) instead of blaming the people that actually are at fault, which, in this case, is the government.

        And all you’re doing is dividing working class people — who’re all up shit creek without a paddle — into ‘British’ and ‘foreigners’.

        What you’re doing is encouraging the lot of us to fight amongst ourselves for the crumbs that fall off the rich man’s table.

        Those in power love to see us scrapping, because division on our side makes them so much stronger. Now if you want some collective power to fight the injustices you’re facing you’ve got to put aside your childish prejudices like ‘my Polish next door neighbour’s got given a slightly bigger bowl of jelly than me’ or whatever other nonsense … you’ve got to put aside these differences and get together — all nationalities — and take them on. Our enemies are international and they are united across the globe, and that means we have to as well.

        As for us becoming a minority in ‘our own’ country, well, you keep on with your little Englander attitude if you want but it was never ‘our’ country in the first place, it’s always belonged to the ruling class, the landed-gentry, the rich bankers. Before the waves of east European immigration it wasn’t ours; before the south Asian immigration it wasn’t ours; before the Italian, Somalian, black and Jewish immigration it wasn’t ours! This land is a mongrel land and we should all stand together and demand a decent life for all!

        • Paula41

          Who talks shite Mr Green!! I think you do!! Because if you read what I wrote, you would see i blame the Politicians and not the foreigners!! So do me a favor and Get your facts right before you start chatting Bollocks to me Mr green!!

        • Margaret McCartney

          Well said Mr Green, I’m from Glasgow, but my forefathers where Irish immigrants,

  14. Paula41

    I don’t have a problem with immigrants I have a problem with this Government, who are causing the biggest divides in our communities!!

  15. tony

    interesting! but on the other hand if the foreigners all went back to there mother land we would have more jobs, more houses, cleaner hospitals!, less crime, the list goes on and on. all I see is a better life if the gates were closed and LOCKED for good. but that’s just my point.

    • Revd. White

      Yeah, that’s just your bigoted point. Why don’t you fuck off, Tony!

  16. bobby47

    Why tell some guy to Fuck Off for simply expressing a view. That’s the problem with this form of social network. It attracts the thick, dull and unimaginative who are only capable of stringing together a few consonants and a couple of vowels.
    They have no views of their own, other than you are a bigot, a racist, or whatever for simply expressing yourself in a thoughtful and articulate way.
    I really miss the point of visiting this site, logging in, tapping Fuck Off on your keyboard and then, presumably getting hold of a custard slice and masturbating as you watch Sadam Hussein executed on Youtube.
    If your going to tell someone to Fuck Off, at the very least, piece together some words that amount to a political, economic or social view that makes the reader think and consider an opinion that may be opposite to yours.

    • tony

      truth hurts!
      I am not here to row bla bla bla, just like most I also don’t agree with the bedroom tax and my guess is that all the ims are draining the country and will bring it to its knees in the end.

    • Revd. White

      No, I totally disagree, bobby47. There are a lot of instances where you should debate with people that you disagree with, and usually I would. But this idiot insinuates that all foreigners are dirty, disease-ridden criminals making our hospitals dirty, stealing our houses and mugging all the law-abiding Brits. Because whoever heard of an Englishman breaking the law or with an illness before these people came along! He has nothing to say about the bedroom tax but instead just used this forum to spout irrelevant bigoted bullshit. Fuck off is exactly the right response.
      “Truth hurts,” he says. Ha! Tony, can you back up any of your disgusting claims … with fact … to prove they’re, you know, actually true?

  17. bobby47

    Rev, Fair enough. Thanks for your response. I apologise for being terse. I shouldn’t have done that. Now to use your expression, I’ll Fuck Off and keep my head down. My warmest regards.

    • tony

      sure! they live to my left my right and opposite! I see them claiming what they can and parking there taxies round the corner before walking home for the evening (not that they are registered as living there in the first place) (wife & kids claiming private) as for dirty! the rats running around there garden and chewing through bin bags is what I would class as dirty and also the fact they i see them taking and selling crack over the weekends.
      you must live a little better I guess? or on the moon maybe?
      some years ago i had a very nice old lady living to my left and a nice family to my right but as they died off THE THINGS moved in!
      as for the bedroom tax what’s the point? we won’t change it, were just going to have to take it right up the ripper as all brits do (brits are way to soft) even a pushover maybe?
      I’m a disabled person with more bedrooms than i should have by the look of things (not my fault some alien Doctor knocked me off my bike) and after 32 years living in my council house am i not entitled to be pissed off ?
      you may brain wash most of britain but NOT me .
      as for fuck off ! i wish THEY WOULD ! at least we have freedom of speech at the mo !

      • Revd. White

        So you seem to be basing your ‘truth’ that foreign people make our hospitals dirty because some of your neighbours have rats? Have I got that right?
        It’s strange how all racists have a ‘I live next door to some of them and they take all they can’ story and then use this as evidence that ALL foreign people are the same (and you somehow seem to know all the ins and outs of their financial situations too. Do you go through their bins or something?).
        Look, I don’t know where you are but I’m in Hereford (an almost exclusively white city in comparison to a lot of others) and I know a lot of people that say ‘I don’t know my neighbours anymore’. And these people just have your ordinary, kosher-for-racists, white, British neighbours. They’re not foreign so they should know them right?
        Years ago people would live close to their place of work, they’d walk to it. They’d go to the corner shop every morning to buy the paper, they’d drink in the local pub, take their kids to the local school, as would all the other families in the neighbourhood. Plenty of opportunities for people to talk to each other.
        These days people live far from where they work, they drive there. They don’t buy papers they read them on phones. Kids go to the schools with the best results (not necessarily the one round the corner) and the only time we go to the pub is on a weekend, in town, to get pissed up. Not many opportunities to get to know your neighbours there.
        This website even published something similar: http://herefordheckler.co.uk/destruction-of-communities/
        The world would be a lot friendlier place if people would get to know their neighbours and not make assumptions.

  18. john perritt

    What a Load of rubbish, all you people whom think the government are right need to open there eye’s, this is not about being fair, its a way of mr Cameron and the rest of the infidels saving more money and being able to say in a year or 2, “look what iv done, look how much £’s iv saved, when really its more of a case of ethnic cleansing, we all know what its all about, we are just to soft to stand up for are rights.

    • tony

      look! I will leave you all to chat with each other as I really don’t have the time for this, my son had to be immunised because of the area we live in and the school he will be going to, that’s what I class as dirty(. I have family in cinderford and they moved there just to get away from the alien takeover (RUN THE WHITE MAN TO THE SEAS) what’s wrong with being racist? if I don’t like em I don’t like em! simple. I too will be spending my remaining years away from BIRMINGHAMSTAN . wont be long before the corner shops and takeaways are taken over in your area then they will move in and consume your town too. and its all governments fault by opening the gates in the first place and allowing them to breed like rats (all paid for by the taxpayer) most of us wont be around in 20 years but what about the kids? that’s my only worry. Good day lads ..

      • paula

        Well said, I agree with you all the way.

  19. tony

    BTW ! if government was not splashing out all this cash to support the aliens our NHS and Public services would not be suffering oh! and the council’s would not be trying to pull £13 a bedroom due to a short fall in rent.

    • Revd. White

      Tony, if your brain cells are functioning today you’ll remember that this time of austerity we find ourselves in was caused by a global banking crisis and a lot of other countries who have not been on the receiving end of mass immigration are facing the same problem.
      I’ve not heard any serious politician, economist or political analyst say recession is the fault of immigration. That’s just your ill-informed opinion.

  20. paula

    Yep !!!

  21. bobby47

    Bloody Hell Tony! I nearly went to war with The Rev for you. Your views are simply awful Tony. You’ve gotta see the world through better eyes than that my friend.

  22. tony

    the government would have more than enough funds to deal with a little banking problem if it were not syphoned off by the problematic foreigners, come on man! they are simply draining the country and every one knows it. my views are what many others would love to say but cannot because its “racist” but if they call us white fu..ers then we must take it on the chin. not me.
    soz if im a bit to straight for some of you.
    I have lived in the same house for 32 years and every time a lovely old ENGLISH lady/man dies A DAM FORIGNER MOVES IN that’s where I am! yet my 4 sons have no chance on the housing list , they just get offered high rise drug ridden crap yet the Somalilanders who just got off the boat get the dam 3 bed house next door ! WHAT THE FU-K ? (I am making myself angry again !!!) ARRRRRR
    anyway! getting back to bedroom tax I will not be paying it till the bitter end after a court case (est. 6months) and I hope lots of others do the same,i will be putting the funds aside just to make sure the councils have a hard time ramming this crap down out necks, why hand it to them on a plate or even direct debit! (can not wait to vote labour mate) COME ON LABOUR

  23. Revd. White

    “In cash terms the UK government has so far spent £123.93bn, but it has at various points since the crisis began been exposed to a sum 10 times larger.” From 2011, http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/reality-check-with-polly-curtis/2011/sep/12/reality-check-banking-bailout
    Are you saying that the government is spending more than £123bn on immigrants? If you are I’d really like to see the proof.

    Social housing stock in this country is incredibly low, a combination of one-time tenants who’ve been allowed to buy their houses and, critically, government (Labour and Tory) building nowhere near enough housing to meet people’s needs. This problem stems back to the 80s but likely earlier. Which means when you have a Somalian family (who are most likely to be fleeing war) who genuinely have nowhere to go up against a family from this country who may be homeless but at least have the option of a couple of friends’ sofas, inevitably the most needy (in this case, Somalis) get a house. That doesn’t make it right that people have to sleep of sofas but for the other family it means sleeping in a door way.
    What it is, Tony, is a lot of us at the shit end of the pile fighting amongst ourselves for the crumbs that fall off the rich man’s table! EVERYONE should have the right to a home and a safe, peaceful life. Everyone has got to be provided for: white, black, brown, green, whatever.

    Fair play to you for resisting the bedroom tax though. Good luck.

  24. laura

    evan though all 3 of my bedrooms are being occupied i still have to pay £16 a week towards my rent on top of what i already pay and rent areas from when i lost my last job and the H/A wont follow the act evan though my 3rd bedroom is 60sqr ft apparently because im still classed as under occupied because i have a living room that is NOT being slept in!!!! WTF i thought its called BEDROOM TAX next there be telling me because i have two toilets i should pay extra on that aswell!! i dont fuckin think so im fighting this all the way there is no way there gettin any more out of me its not possible as a single working mother!!! and i have spoke to wesk berks council who said they will pay the tax if my H/A relook at my tennancy agreement as a 2 bed plus box roomm so it can be done but they just dont want to budge and as long as the council have confirmed that they will pay the extra tax for it my H/A isnt getting a penny they can take me to court!!

    • tony

      I’m with you Laura, I too will be going to court! and for a laugh I called the housing and said you can have your 3 bed (adapted) house back and I will downgrade then! they said “have you found somewhere”?and my reply was no! “I thought the housing would help me find a smaller place” .. JOKERS !!! they then said you can apply for some fund/grant/help to cover the costs! , but you must prove your skint !!! this will also only cover you for 6M then u need to apply again. so they are sending a form out. lol (best to string it along)
      this bit is to Revd. White , what was said in my last reply (that has not been shown here) is true! as shown on the news over the last couple of days. the public have the same views on foreigners as what I said !!! looks like some comments/reply’s are filtered here? only what you see fit gets through on here !

      • Keith

        Yes Tony, two or three recent comments have not been approved due to their prejudiced/semi-racist content.
        As you can see above, we’ve already let through quite a number of posts – relating to immigrants and foreigners that are completely at odds with our beliefs – in the interests of promoting discussion and dispelling myths. Most of these posts have had only a tenuous link, if any, with the bedroom tax.
        With this site we hope to promote the anarchist principles of equality, tolerance and internationalism and for that reason any further posts on this article that we view as racist or anti-immigrant will not be approved.

  25. clm

    How about this one – following redundancy I now work part time and contribute towards my rent/council tax – my daughter is still in full-time education and lives at home but my son is a serving member in the armed forces (currently in Afghanistan) I am being penalised for his bedroom under this new legislation as according to my council he does not live permanently at home and therefore I have an extra room. I have to either move out and find my own accommodation as the Housing Association do not assist you with this or rent out his room (when he comes home on leave he will have to sleep on the sofa) – how is this fair? There must surely be other ways of freeing up accommodation to help with housing needs as I’m not sure how penalising cases like mine and others in similar situations on here helps in the grand scheme……. I was told by Army Wlefare that any families with people in the Armed Forces this tax would not apply the answer from my council ‘youre son needs to contribute to the running of your home regardless that he is not living there permanently’

    • Mr Harsh Reality

      @ CLM my baby brother shipped out to afgan 5wks ago and his mum is in the same boat. The response i gave her was this…….
      He no longer lives at home, he serves queen and country just as i did many years ago. He is housed by the forces, fed by the forces, provided for by the forces. When on leave its upto him to sort his self out much like we would if going abroad on a self catering holiday because lets be honest….. He is on holiday from queen and country. So realistically you have a spare room. His serving should not reflect upon your circumstances in the slightest as your not the one serving, he is… If you were his wife then i’d say thats a different kettle of fish but your not. Sorry if i offend but thats just the way it as i’m afraid

  26. Mike

    Advice needed if I took out my partition wall does it class as one very large room ??.

  27. tony

    @mike, if you rented the house as a 3 bed then its a 3 bed, knocking walls down wont change a thing, if it were the case I would turn my 3bed into a 1-bed? could have a snooker table in there then !! lol

  28. Nikki Herd

    Are you kidding me!? I have been on a waiting list forever I currently live in a private rental which is 3 bedroom I am a single mum with 2 teenagers and a 4 year old because the age difference between my teenage daughter and my 4 year old is too much I have to (because of protocol) wait for a 4 bedroom home. Even tho I live in a 3 bedroom home now which I cannot afford! (Yes I have a roof over my head but I work 2 jobs and stick to a mega budget) ) and it would be nice if I could enjoy my life sometimes. So I’m sorry about my big rant/vent but if I got offered a 4 or a 3 bedroom house today my bags would be packed and I would be moved in by tomorrow and I’ll tell you now I wouldn’t be pulling out my tape measure!

  29. Kay

    Hi i live in a council house 3 bedroom, i find it hard wiv the bed tax. I have a 3yr girl and 5yr boy i dont think i should have to pay the ta as my smallest round is smaller then a box room. If i down size to a 2 bed i would have to move again in 5yrs to a 3which would be rediculess. It would unsettle an affect my kids moving around. There are certain circumstances as soon as my youngest is in full time i will be working so it wont effect me but i dont think it should be now

  30. ric

    Sorry to say good idea poorly tasked,if the government had said stuff it if you live on you own and have a 2 bedroomed property we will allow this but for future tenants the law stands.
    I would start to charge extra at 3 bedroom for a single tenant of £20 4 bedrooms for single tenant at £60 and 3 times each extra bedroom.
    This would take out 80% of people needing to move if not 90% the die harder who lives alone in a 5 bedroom property would need to pay £180 for His/Her tenancy,Don’t you think someone holding on to so many extra rooms should pay a capital price for it when some family with 3 or 4 children are in 2 bedroom properties because no large one’s are available.
    (But this aside the real reason that this is happening is the Conservative Government of the 1980′s told councils they could not use the money from selling council housing to build more but most place it in a fund,and don’t say dam Conservatives because as far as i can tell nothing changed for a long time with Labour)
    How can you sell a million + council houses and not think the next generation will need help to.
    Well easy get elected for 4 years,8 years,12 years and 25 years down the road its nothing to do with you, Because its a new leader who can say my party made a mistake but we wont .
    The sad thing is its not the parties paying for there mistakes its ?.
    I hope they do change this law,hopefully to a better one but seeing none of the law makers live in a council house as far as i know i doubt it.

  31. jeff

    mmmm,
    I have just read the various comments . some people are just ignorant of what this bedroom tax is all about.
    its an evil unjust tax on the most poorest and venerable people in our society.
    ok if old ( multi millionaire) Duncan smith and his multi millionaire chums in parliament peddle such rubbish that someone that has a spare bedroom is under occupied and therefore must be penalised with a charge of £12 because that person should move to a smaller property.

    ok then smithy build hundreds of thousands of new smaller properties so people can move out.
    how can people downsize if there are no properties to downsize too you idiot.

    its not about downsizing at all its about bleeding the poor out of more money nothing more.
    if there are no smaller properties to move into why penalise the poor and bleed them out of money for the bedroom tax for no fault of their own.
    oh and one more point I am not a racist however, where do you think all the Albanian and Bulgarian families are going to live with their broods of 4,5,and 6 kids huh. smith needs our homes to house them.

    we are reverting back to Victorian times, we have now become food bank Britain…..

    for a country that is the 8th richest nation on the planet it is disgusting the way it treats its most poor and venerable people.

    shame on you Tories and all who support you!!

    • caroline

      Some very valid points there. I agree with what you say about the reasons for this spare room tax too.
      The media is paid to play a big part in trying to divide the classes, it works, & that’ll be the reason for a lot of ignorant opinions I expect.

    • Paula41

      Is Right Jeff, well said.

  32. mr newcastle

    i have a room with a floor space of 64.5 feet squared and it says its big enough for half a person
    what exactly is half a person
    what size does it need to be for to be a box room

  33. Mr Hadenough

    I live in a flat with a main bedroom of double size & one room of 6ft 6in X 7ft 2in that I am being charged £12 per week for. I have recently been made redundant from my job of 14 years which for most of that I actually lodged away from home in b&bs & hotels, so in efect I was paying rent/lodge twice. I have been on the housing list for 2 years now there are simply no small properties out there. I am a single person with no ties & would gladly move into a bedsit or a one bed flat. I live on a good estate and have a garage bigger than my small bedroom & only pay £7 for it. All the powers of this country have no idea because they have never suffered or gone hungry (well most of them havent).

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